Talk:Perth

This article is written in Australian English, which has its own spelling conventions (centre, colour, realise, program, travelled) and some terms may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Perth was one of the Geography and places good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
April 20, 2006	Good article nominee	Listed
September 16, 2007	Good article reassessment	Delisted
August 18, 2015	Good article nominee	Not listed

Current status: Delisted good article

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Photo montage

Why is one of the photos in the montage in the infobox just a sign saying 'Perth'. Very cringe. Does this sign even exist anymore? Some random temporary sign saying 'Perth' is not an icon of the city. GeebaKhap (talk) 07:57, 11 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

As of 22 April 2025, the montage is one skyline of CBD buildings (but which isn't bad), and then seven pictures of more buildings and structures, including three tall ones lined up on the second row like they're queuing up to buy milk. Perth isn't just a collection of buildings. Where is the beach, the water, the expanse, greenery, tree-lines streets, Aboriginal culture, people? The whole current selection is cringe! Elrondil (talk) 13:01, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that it needs more diversity of pictures and particularly representations of places outside the CBD. The Elizabeth Quay bridge keeps getting added back in which I find peculiar as it is not particularly notable either as a Perth bridge or representation of Elizabeth Quay (a location already captured in the skyline and Swan Bells photos. My suggestion is that one at least gets replaced by a picture of Cottesloe Beach, which is both an iconic location and isn't in the CBD. The Logical Positivist (talk) 06:14, 27 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Indigenous names

Starting section so that editors who wish to do so may present arguments for altering the WP:STATUSQUO in the article, specifically regarding the use of Indigenous place names. Mako001 (C) (T) 🇺🇦 02:29, 29 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Previous discussions, for reference:

Talk:Perth/Archive 5 § Aboriginal name
Talk:Perth/Archive 5 § Etymology You can ignore the debate about whether "Etymology" is the correct section - that's been resolved (it's now "Toponymy") - but there's still a lot of material about the contents, independently of the section name.

Mitch Ames (talk) 07:40, 29 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RfC: Landmarks in lead image montage

There is ongoing disagreement among editors about which landmarks should be included in the lead image montage of the Perth article. This RFC seeks community input on how best to determine which landmarks are most appropriate or representative for inclusion. The dispute revolves around three landmarks:

Option 1: Elizabeth Quay Pedestrian Bridge (the current version)
Option 2: Cottesloe Beach (diff)
Option 3: Crawley Edge Boatshed (diff)

Please indicate which option you support, and feel free to suggest modifications or alternative combinations. - PastelLilac (talk) 01:04, 28 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Option 1 or 3: Option 3 is considered a landmark in Perth, according to the introduction paragraph, which would make sense to have it be the lead image since those familiar would consider it a landmark. Option 1 is solid because most people would recognize a city area as a landmark of the town. Hopefully that's helpful, I'm leaning towards keeping it the same, especially where there are so many other images already. ^🥑GUACPOCALYPSE^🥑 22:51, 27 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

Option 2: Of the three landmarks, I believe Cottesloe Beach is by far the most significant. It's the most famous beach in a city known for its beach culture. It's recognised by the Heritage Council as a place of cultural significance, and The West Australian called it "one of the most iconic locations in WA". As for the Elizabeth Quay Pedestrian Bridge, it has been around for nearly a decade and still remains a red link. No one has thought to make a page for it. It's not a Harbour Bridge that defines a city. It's comparatively tiny and is just a bit of modern infrastructure that is kind of visually interesting. One editor argued that it symbolises the Elizabeth Quay urban renewal project. But the montage already includes a skyline shot that shows Elizabeth Quay and a standalone image of Swan Bells, which is also located there. In my view, the bridge doesn't add much to the montage in terms of representation or distinctiveness, and, compared to Cottesloe Beach, lacks independent notability. - PastelLilac (talk) 01:18, 28 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Option 2. Is a request for comment really necessary? Why not just a regular talk page discussion? Anyway, I prefer the Cottesloe Beach image over the other two images, as it is the most iconic beach in a city that is known for its beaches. The Boatshed is just an Instagram fad. It would be good if we could have an Elizabeth Quay image as well, as Elizabeth Quay is the second most Google reviewed place in Perth, but not the image which is just a picture of the bridge. I can't identify any adequate image for this on Commons though, so we might need a new image for Elizabeth Quay. The first-most Google reviewed place in Perth is Kings Park, which is also the most reviewed park in Australia. This would also be a good place to have an image of. File:Fraser Avenue precinct by D.Blumer.jpg and File:Glass Bridge (48890104302).jpg were previously images used in the infobox. Elizabeth Quay and Kings Park could replace the current second row, which is currently three second-rate attractions. Of the remaining images, I like the Perth Stadium and the Fremantle images. The Museum is not quite as iconic, but I have no better suggestion for that slot, so I think it can remain for now. Steelkamp (talk) 02:08, 28 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Option 2: Cottesloe Beach is one of Perth's most iconic locations. The Elizabeth Quay bridge is not a major Perth bridge and EQ is already captured in the skyline and Swan Bells photos. Plus it adds in more non-CBD images. --The Logical Positivist (talk) 10:27, 28 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Option 2 Cottesloe Beach is the most iconic, and is the best photo. I agree Kings Park would also be a good thing to have a photo of. SportingFlyer T·C 10:37, 28 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support for Option 2.

But this isn't the only problem. Currently that montage is a collection of buildings and structures, and Perth is more than that. I suggest a set of seven or more categories are agreed, and then an image is chosen for each category. For example: (1) Perth CBD skyline, (2) historic, (3) Swan River, (4) beach/ocean (5) people, (6) flora/fauna (7) culture. Elrondil (talk) 08:14, 28 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You could replace the town hall and digital tower photos with something like https://w.wiki/Dw9N and https://w.wiki/Dw9S which would get you closer to that. The Logical Positivist (talk) 13:49, 28 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Appreciate the call for greater diversity of images but not sure this is the approach to take. These to me are fine illustrations of trees and shrubs and black swans, not of Perth. Those swans could be nearly anywhere. The current skyline shot shows some of Kings Park and where it is in relation to CBD. Two birds with one stone. - PastelLilac (talk) 14:10, 28 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The caption below the image could explain where the image was taken, and if current images won't do we can take new ones. The great examples The Logical Positivist has proposed don't have coordinates, but both state in their description where they were taken.

The current skyline image (which I actually like) shows the tops of a couple of bushes or trees (I can't tell which) in the bottom 1/8th of the image that look like they stand at the very edge of Kings Park, and IMHO are not the BEST examples of the incredible flora/fauna in Perth. But you're right, an image could satisfy multiple categories, and I'm sure we can come up with more categories. Elrondil (talk) 14:42, 28 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Ideally the images will immediately and only say "Perth" without the need for captions. A photo of just a black swan is symbolic, not location-specific and uniquely "Perth". - PastelLilac (talk) 15:02, 28 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Elrondil: Can you give some examples of Wikipedia pages on cities where the infobox shows images of "people", "flora/fauna" and "culture"? Steelkamp (talk) 02:33, 29 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Those were example suggestions. What are your ideas for getting more diversity into the montage? Elrondil (talk) 13:49, 29 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The montage, with Cottesloe Beach added, is already pretty diverse and gives a well rounded idea of Perth. We have: beach, stadium and view from Kings Park (sport, leisure, nature); Fremantle, Town Hall (colonial heritage); Yagan Square and WA Museum Boola Bardip (Indigenous connection, civic identity and contemporary urban culture); Swan Bells (Elizabeth Quay). - PastelLilac (talk) 14:32, 29 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

5 of the 8 pictures are primarily of buildings, 1 is a skyline of many buildings, and 1 is of a street with buildings on the right and cars on the left. Even the beach has a building. Or to put it another way, NONE of the pictures have NO buildings. But yes, they are a diverse collection of buildings that anyone FROM Perth would probably recognise (except perhaps the Freo one), whereas readers that know nothing of Perth would need the captions (which is fine, that is what captions are for) because Perth isn't really known for ANY of these buildings. Elrondil (talk) 12:44, 30 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Buildings dominate pretty much every city montage on Wikipedia, because cities are built environments. Search any city and try find a montage that doesn't emphasise buildings. Some examples: Lima, Oslo, Nagoya. - PastelLilac (talk) 12:55, 30 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Bremen has an image of the Weser because it is known for it, an image of the Town Musicians because it is known for that, San Francisco has a streetcar, the bridge and Alcatraz Island because it is known for that, Rome has two fountains, the Spanish Steps and yes Pantheon and Colosseum. Perth has the advertising tower on Yagan Square. I am not anti-building, I am anti-irrelevant and anti-boring. Elrondil (talk) 13:11, 30 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Perth is known for (from the lead):

isolated major city
Swan River and Indian Ocean
48,000-year-old Noongar culture
mining headquarters
one of the world's most liveable cities
second longest city on the planet
Kings Park and Botanic Garden
Cottesloe Beach and Rottnest Island
Perth Mint (which has world's largest, heaviest and most valuable gold coin)
Fremantle Prison

Elrondil (talk) 13:30, 30 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

"Perth has the advertising tower on Yagan Square." Actually: "Standing 45 metres tall, the Digital Tower is an unmissable landmark at the heart of Yagan Square. Inspired by the bulrushes that once thrived in the area’s wetlands, its 14 towering prongs represent the 14 Noongar language groups, making it a striking fusion of culture and technology. With a vast 2,300sqm digital canvas, the tower showcases everything from abstract visuals and contemporary art to live-streamed events and community stories." It often shows Indigenous art of some kind, which would be preferable here. Still I like the backdrop of the current image, with its mix of heritage buildings and skyscrapers. That's cool you're anti boring, but I don't see how anything in the list you provided is less boring than what we already have, and some of it is kind of abstract and hard to illustrate (comparatively high liveability, isolation). You sure you want mining illustrated? How? Gina's crappy poem in Morley? - PastelLilac (talk) 14:06, 30 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

How about Wirin instead, such as File:Wirin Yagan Square.jpg? Until someone takes a better image.

As for mining headquarters, the skyline is full of buildings occupied by mining and resource. If it were across the river you could also tick off Swan River AND if there were dolphins in it to boot that'd be brilliant (but unlikely). Elrondil (talk) 14:28, 30 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I would support replacing the Town Hall image with an image of the Perth Mint, such as File:Perth Mint, WA, 2023.jpg. Fremantle Prison would be good because its a World Heritage Site, but Fremantle is already represented. Steelkamp (talk) 14:14, 30 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I second that. Elrondil (talk) 14:19, 30 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Nice choice Steelkamp. Elrondil (talk) 14:29, 30 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I prefer the Town Hall. Only town hall in Australia built by convicts, so a nod to their legacy and impact. Replacing with Perth Mint would limit historical representation to the Federation era (Fremantle streetscape dates from this time as well). Images of Perth Mint, Fremantle Prison serve their current section well. I also prefer the current Digital Tower one to all available images of the Wirin sculpture. - PastelLilac (talk) 14:50, 30 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The clear winner thus far is Option 2.

As for the proposal using categories, whatever works to arrive at a set of images that doesn't just depict buildings and structures. I'm just not sure how ANY of the currently shown stuff says "Perth" to anyone not already familiar with Perth ... except maybe the awful media pillar in Yagan Square – but only because it LITERALLY has the letters "Perth" in front of it. There is so much beauty in Perth, but almost none of it is shown here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elrondil (talk • contribs) 18:02, 28 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think you've taken my point too literally. How about this: imagine showing Google Lens stuff around Perth. If you show it a few trees in Kings Park, or a black swan, without any surrounding context, chances are it won't know where they are located. Could be anywhere. Now show it a skyline of Perth from Kings Park, or Swan Bells, and there's a good chance it will recognise it as Perth. That's what we should aim for, while trying to strike a balance between diversity and notability. I'm guessing the end result will be 4 or 5 buildings and a couple natural features (Cotresloe Beach, Kings Park). - PastelLilac (talk) 18:37, 28 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I'm not opposed to using an image of Cottesloe Beach, but my own personal preference would be to use an image of St Mary's Cathedral. Like many other large cities, their cathedrals are a major landmark, architecturally and culturally for religious and non-religious alike. Perth's St Mary's is no exception and I think it would be a great alternative to using other touristy hotspots (even though they still have their place in the montage). Out of the options provided, I would pick either *Option 1 if we can find a high quality image of Elizabeth Quay encompassing the whole area (I agree maybe not just the bridge, but it's a decent image and better quality wise than the other images that were proposed) or *Option 2 if we can find a higher quality, better image to the one that has been used for the montage when the edit dispute began. It's a good angle, but I don't think it's the greatest in quality or lighting. Images like this - [1] or this [2] for example would be much more preferable - Shrubshire (talk) 13:39, 29 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'd agree on cathedral if Perth was known for being particularly religious and home to something like the Sagrada Família. Neither is the case. - PastelLilac (talk) 14:36, 29 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Not an RFC Feel free to continue this discussion on this Talk Page, but I am recommending this discussion be closed, per WP:RFCBEFORE, "RfCs are time consuming, and Wikipedia being a volunteer project, editor time is valuable. Editors should try to resolve their issues before starting an RfC. Try discussing the matter with any other parties on the related talk page." Penguino35 (talk) 17:20, 28 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Mandurah as an Independent City

whilst possibly true that in the past Mandurah was considered seperate to Perth in my years living here it seems to be widely accepted to be apart of Perth (connected via Transperth, Apart of the electoral mass etc)

Would it still be accurate to consider Mandurah an independent city or just another internal city of Perth (similar to Armadale, Fremantle, Midlands, Joondalup) 2405:6E00:2635:E220:91C6:317D:378C:DBBA (talk) 03:35, 29 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate your question. My reply would be that I don't believe there is any way to objectively conclude that Mandurah is not an independent city. All the cities you mention (Armadale, Fremantle, Midland, Joondalup) are in fact part of the Perth metro area, and Armadale is actually part of Perth itself. Mandurah on the other hand is not in the Perth Council, nor in the Perth Metro Area. You could call it a satellite city, but it is an independent city with its own government, challenges, culture, and economy. For these reasons, I vote that Mandurah remain an independent city. Yammajamma (talk) 04:31, 19 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Troy Sivan?

why is he even listed? Who is he and why is he listed with names that are so much more famous? ~2025-35810-64 (talk) 10:15, 23 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see him in the article anymore. ~2026-12969-72 (talk) 14:34, 27 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Misinformation i infoboxes

There's some sort of odd parameter being used in the infobox about distances that is very misleading as no one travels in a straight line. This would be a great example of misleading information. Is this something that content editors even inject into prose of the article?.... That is proper travel distance from place to place? Moxy🍁 19:54, 9 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

{{Infobox Australian place}} explicitly says "distance by road". Personally I think that direct distance is more correct – the field in the infobox is "location" not "travel" – unless we explicitly state "by road", or in a context where by road is necessarily implied (e.g. in driving directions, or distances along a road).

no one travels in a straight line — I suggest that far more people travel between Perth and other state capitals by air than by road, so logically it should be distances by air, not road. Mitch Ames (talk) 01:25, 13 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Plus, that would confine you to just those places that can currently be reached by road, and travel distances change a lot more frequently than distance by air.

Elrondil (talk) 02:34, 13 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]