Talk:General Systems

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Due to possible violation of copyright, see WP:Copyvio, I have removed one or more section of this article for now.

I apologize for all inconvenience I have caused here, see also here. If you would like to assist in improving this article, please let me know. I can use all the help I can get. Thank you.

-- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 12:14, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I cannot find much about this journal. The external link given in the infobox is dead. The homepage of the journal Systems Research and Behavioral Science does not mention this journal at all, has 6 issues per year, and the 5th issue just seems to be an ordinary issue. Perhaps somebody else will be able to figure out what is going on here. Perhaps it was just discontinued or absorbed into the SRBS journal? --Randykitty (talk) 21:26, 11 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

1. You can find the general info at the LCCN permalink: http://lccn.loc.gov/62000913
2. the link to the journal homepage http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/journal/10.1002/(ISSN)1099-1743a/issues?activeYear=2008 is not dead (at my computer)
3. The article states: Since 1998, it has been published as issue 5 of Systems Research and Behavioral Science. I guess you could not find conformation of this fact?

-- Mdd (talk) 23:40, 11 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Randykitty, you could be right about the third point. Looking into the journals recent archive, see here, so far I also can't find any conformation. I will look into this some more. -- Mdd (talk) 00:06, 12 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I found it in the journals archive: From 1998 until 2002 the “General Systems” Yearbook of the International Society for the Systems Sciences" has been published as 5th issue of the Systems Research and Behavioral Science. -- Mdd (talk) 01:02, 12 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The journal page is now live again for me, too, must have been a transient issue but I would use this simpler link). However, the link goes to SRBS, not the Yearbook. Library catalogs are often out of date and not always completely accurate either. Perhaps this article should be pared down a bit and then merged into the article on SRBS (which at the moment is very short)? --Randykitty (talk) 07:24, 12 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

1. Why not use the LCCN permalink http://lccn.loc.gov/62000913 ?
2. The link to the journal homepage is not death, so it doesn't have to be removed.
3. The article's statement: Since 1998, it has been published as issue 5 of Systems Research and Behavioral Science. could be altered, based on the (new) info available.
4. However I guess there is more to it. You initial statement that "the 5th issue just seems to be an ordinary issue" doesn't seem correct. The 5th issue is a special about one specific subject. I guess in the ISSS community this special is still called the "General Systems Yearbook". Now I haven't found a link to confirm this, but it seems worth looking into some more.
5. The new link you gave to wiley http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/journal/10.1002/ gives "Page Not Found" on my computer
6. You propose to pare down the article. I would like to check some more and update it first.
7. You seem to propose a merge, which gives us a seventh point to dispute.
8. The article on SRBS is indeed very short at the moment, because you trimmed the article, which I like to dispute at the articles talk page (first).

It would be nice if we could agree on one or more of those point. -- Mdd (talk) 15:51, 12 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi again, thought I had answered, but will be a bit more explicit now: 1/ Library catalogs, even of the LoC, are often out of date or outright erroneous. In any case, it's not a very solid reference. 2/ I have corrected the link I gave above, which I think is slightly better (it's the one labelled "home" in the left-hand menu on the Wiley site). 3+4/ Whether or not the fifth issue is a special issue or not, it does look like that this journal does not exist any more and, at best, is now just a section of SRBS. 5/ See 2. 6/ One doesn't exclude the other. 7/ Follows from 3+4. 8/ I don't see any recent trimming of that article. Summarizing, I think we certainly agree about points 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, which is a good start... :-) --Randykitty (talk) 16:37, 12 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I tend to agree, that this journal does not exist any more. Now I double checked and found:

• The Library of Congress mentions that the periodical "ceased with v. 32 (1989)"
• The Wiley site (here) mentions five other volumes of the Yearbook:
  • Special Issue: “General Systems” Yearbook of the International Society for the Systems Sciences 1990–1997 ([1]
  • Special Issue: “General Systems” Yearbook of the International Society for the Systems Sciences 1998 [2]
  • Special Issue: "General Systems" Yearbook of the International Society for the Systems Sciences 1999 [3]
  • Special Issue: “General Systems” Yearbook of the International Society for the Systems Sciences 2000. [4]
  • Special Issue: “General Systems” Yearbook of the International Society for the Systems Sciences 2001. [5]
• The worldcat.org mentions the publication date as 1956-2002., see here

This seems to be the data about the accurate situation, which could/should be updated in the article. We could mention that the periodical ceased in 1989 (or 2002) and add the Category:Publications disestablished in 1989 or Category:Publications disestablished in 2002. It seems for the best not to mention any link to the journals homepage. The (updated) link you proposed doesn't give any direct info about the ceased periodical. -- Mdd (talk) 20:31, 12 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]