Help talk:Table

This is the main talk page for discussing improvements to the various table help pages.

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Section sizes

Section size for Help:Table (63 sections)
Section name	Byte count
Section name	Header	Total
(Top)	508	508
Tools	13	4,043
Source mode toolbar	2,274	2,274
Visual editor	1,195	1,195
Using other tools	561	561
Table basics	247	3,694
Markup	2,401	2,401
HTML attributes	1,046	1,046
Wikicode syntax tutorial	407	7,354
Begin and end delimiters	397	397
Caption	312	312
Row start	431	431
Cells	879	879
Optional parameters	2,250	2,250
Displaying a pipe character	177	177
Scope	2,501	2,501
Examples	16	1,098
Minimalist table	464	464
Multiplication table	618	618
Whole table operations	30	10,754
Class	2,462	2,462
Captions and summaries	3,570	3,570
Colspan and rowspan	4,692	4,692
Table style	573	12,262
Horizontal text alignment	466	466
Height	665	665
Borders	1,761	1,761
Border-collapse: conflicting or double borders	1,276	1,276
Float table left or right	2,067	2,067
Centering tables	1,744	1,744
Static ('sticky') headers	190	190
Nested tables	3,520	3,520
Column operations	932	932
Width	119	119
Row operations	305	8,969
Starting a new row	509	509
Row style	1,441	1,441
Row headers	1,401	1,401
Row numbers	232	232
Link directly to a row	581	581
Row template	1,877	1,877
Conditional table row	2,623	2,623
Cell operations	23	19,406
Setting cell parameters	709	709
Vertical alignment in cells	2,665	2,665
Cell content indenting and padding	5,644	5,644
Individual cell borders	9,216	9,216
Table cell templates	799	799
Tooltips	350	350
Workarounds	19	5,150
Scrolling tables	178	178
Overflowing tables	1,279	1,279
Non-rectangular tables	970	970
Rendering the pipe	2,704	2,704
Classes	3,862	3,862
Indenting tables	684	1,479
Tables on talk pages	795	795
Public domain image tables	676	676
See also	581	2,292
Templates	1,711	1,711
Notes	36	36
External links	2,011	3,094
Wikimedia sister projects	1,083	1,083
Total	85,728	85,728

Template:Scrolling table doc

See the rarely used templates listed in this doc:

Template:Scrolling table doc

There are better methods here:

Help:Table#Overflowing tables

I am leaving a note here in hopes some others will look and see if I am correct.

If so, someone with more time than me might put the templates up for deletion here:

Wikipedia:Templates for discussion

I suggested the same here:

Template talk:Scrolling table doc

--Timeshifter (talk) 11:45, 8 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I can't tell from this what your question is, but if you want a scrolling table, it is just a matter of setting height (or max-height) and overflow. Ditto width. See WP:PNT, top right just above the ToC; it uses {{PNT table}} and maxes out at around ten rows, and then scrolls. Is that what you are asking about? Mathglot (talk) 20:04, 16 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I added a subsection: Help:Table#Scrolling tables. It links to Help:Table/Advanced#Scrolling tables. See it and the sections that follow for examples of scrolling, sticky headers, and combinations thereof. Feel free to add more info there.

I think the scrolling table at Wikipedia:Pages needing translation into English could be done with Template:Sticky table start.

That table used {{PNT table}}, and I haven't studied it to know whether it has specialized functions that would conflict with Template:Sticky table start. Maybe Jroberson108 knows.

As for Template:Scrolling table doc see the horizontal scrolling table at Women's National Cricket League#Team performance. It has a sticky left column, and looks great. But the table wikitext is majorly different from standard table wikitext. And that table can now be done with Template:Sticky table start. --Timeshifter (talk) 17:15, 17 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Column operations

Column operations, like row operations, are a fundamental part of tables. There used to be a top-level (H2) section for column operations, until it was removed in this edit. Why was this done? Mathglot (talk) 19:43, 16 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The old version at "Column operations":

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Help:Table&oldid=1288271420#Column_operations

All of that info was about width so I put that info in its own overall section called "Width" on the same page.

Just now I created a new overall section about "Column operations". With a link to the large section on Width (on the same page), and a link to the section on column alignment here: Help:Table/Advanced#Column alignment. That section is part of a much larger overall section: Help:Table/Advanced#Horizontal alignment in cells. That covers alignment in individual cells too.

I remember moving a lot of stuff off the Help:Table page in order to shorten it. Also to get rid of all 2-level subsections. Now you have only one level of subsections. Much easier to navigate.

I think the Width section should not be a subsection of Column operations. Because Width covers full table width too. And it links to another width page covering yet more intricacies of table and column width: Help:Table/Width.

So Width is a large and complicated subject, and deserves to be an overall section. --Timeshifter (talk) 10:14, 17 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Helping tool

Hello, is there a tool to help move around columns of a table? It is for this one [1], it is long and many columns are combined at certain parts, so it is sort of complicated. It would be very convenient to have a tool to move around the columns because the order of the featured parties does not reflect anymore their real relevance (for example, the third bloc is completely banned now), so I was wondering if such a tool exists. With the visual editor I can uniquely delete a couple of columns (not most), but I can't move around any. Thanks, Super Ψ Dro 14:02, 20 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hey. There is info here:

Help:Creating tables#Move/delete row/column

But rowspans and colspans probably mess things up.

Jroberson108. Any ideas?

By the way, Super Dromaeosaurus, that table needs Template:Sticky header.

--Timeshifter (talk) 17:09, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, in the end I managed to alter the table with the visual editor after some experimenting. I was going to remove this thread but I forgot, so apologies. The issue is now resolved, but appreciate the help anyway. Super Ψ Dro 17:38, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

OK Super Dromaeosaurus. I added Template:Sticky table start. This version:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2025_Moldovan_parliamentary_election&oldid=1307451974#Opinion_polls

--Timeshifter (talk) 18:15, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Nice, thank you! Super Ψ Dro 20:26, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Super Dromaeosaurus. Looks like someone already broke it. See diff. They removed the left sticky column, and the row hover highlighting {{mw-datatable}}. That really helps follow a row across a wide table. --Timeshifter (talk) 23:06, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I agree it is helpful. I suggest pinging the user at the thread you started at the article's talk page and explaining this to them. Super Ψ Dro 23:09, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I don't usually do that since there are so many other tables I can improve without objections. --Timeshifter (talk) 23:46, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Slashes removed from table help page titles

Help:Table/Advanced changed to Help:Advanced table features.

This was because the old name caused its talk page (Help talk:Table/Advanced) to be in results for searches of Help talk:Table archives.

This is because at the top of those search results it says:

Only searching in pages whose title starts with "Help talk:Table/"

So any table help page starting with Help:Table/ will have their talk page (Help talk:Table/...) or talk archives (Help talk:Table/.../Archive) to possibly show up in results for talk archive searches at Help talk:Table. I saw it happen once with that page's talk page showing up in the search results, and so that is why I changed its page title.

Also, Help:Table/History of pipe syntax development was changed to Help:History of table pipe syntax development. This is to prevent its talk page from showing up in Help talk:Table search results.

Help:Table/Width was changed to Help:Width of tables, columns, and cells

All of these start with "Help talk:Table/"

Help talk:Table/Archive 1 - archives are supposed to show up in search results.
Help talk:Table/Advanced
Help talk:Table/History of pipe syntax development
Help talk:Table/Width

So the problem has been fixed by removing the slash from the page titles. Those old talk pages are redirects or blank now. So there is nothing to search for. The red linked talk pages weren't yet a problem since there was nothing there. See:

The new talk pages discuss the page moves. They are not a problem since they don't have slashes in their names.

Special:Prefixindex/Help:Table/ lists subpages of Help:Table.

Subpage Index

All of the italicized subpage names are redirects. There are 2 pages with content. There is a CSS page. The content pages do not have talk pages yet. It would be a problem if they got talk pages. If that happened, then the talk pages could be redirected to Help talk:Table to fix the problem. --Timeshifter (talk) 17:47, 23 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Here is the CSS page:

Help:Table/styles.css

Here is its talk page:

Help talk:Table/styles.css

It should stay with the CSS page. I may move the CSS page somewhere else. Mathglot, where can we move this too? How about here?:

Template:Table help/styles.css

See previous discussion:

Help talk:Table/styles.css#Can we move this to Template:Table help/styles.css?

--Timeshifter (talk) 18:07, 23 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Whew. The only thing I am sure of at this point, is that the styles page should not be moved to Template space, separating it from where it logically belongs. I would not have moved any of those pages away from subpages. If it were up to me, I would put everything back the way it was, move all of the old subpage conversations into the appropriate Help talk:Table/Archive_*, any active subpage conversations to Help talk:Table, and redirect all the subpage Talk pages to Help talk:Table. There is no particular reason for the subpages to have their own Talk pages. Given where things are now, I don't know if it worth undoing it all, so I don't know what to advise, other than keeping the styles page local. I guess I don't really understand even within the current scheme why you would want to move it at all; what is the issue with leaving it at Help:Table/styles.css? Also, a styles page does not need a dedicated Talk page, it can just be redirected to Help talk:Table. But what about all those no-longer-subpages? Are you planning to have dedicated Talk pages for each one? I think they should all be redirected as well; anyone looking to discuss anything about Help:Table, including any of the menagerie of articles that belong to it, whether they are organized as subpages or not, should only have to look in one place, namely, here. Mathglot (talk) 23:24, 23 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

See Wikipedia:Subpages. Subpages are not used for article names. But nothing forbids use in help pages. I just think it is a bad idea for the same reason that they stopped being used for articles in mainspace. It creates a confusing hierarchic structure where it is not needed.

Also, apparently, there are problems with the visual editor and help page names having slashes in them. See:

https://www.google.com/search?q=wikipedia+visual+editor+has+a+problem+editing+help+pages+with+slashes+in+name

And if editors of other help page topics are encouraged to use subpages, then they will have the same problem with talk pages. And what if their hierarchy is not so focused on one topic? They may not want to redirect talk pages when the topics are too divergent.

As for table help talk pages all redirecting to here, I have no objection. They all have to do with tables.

I can see where styles.css makes sense as a subpage on the main table help page. So let's leave it there. I liked having all the CSS discussion in one place since it is so technical. That is why I wanted to move the CSS page elsewhere. To avoid the search problem. But I can live with moving the CSS talk to the talk archive here.

I kind of like having separate talk pages for each table help page. It keeps things focused. On the other hand I am realizing I am probably the only person with all the table help pages on my watchlist. Most people were coming to Help talk:Table anyway with their questions. There isn't much discussion, if any, on most of the separate talk pages. So it wasn't a problem I was concerned about.

But I now see that moving all past discussion to the archives of Help talk:Table does have its advantages. One can search in one place.

So let's redirect all of the table talk pages to here after moving their old discussions to the archive here. --Timeshifter (talk) 04:36, 24 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I do understand your point about having separate talk pages for each table help page, and that may be a plus for helpers, but it would depend on the people who need help going to the right Talk page to post their question—what are the chances of that? So, yes, there is perhaps some lack of focus or some sight inconvenience to the helpers of having it all in one place, but it simplifies everything for helpees, and imho that is a cost worth paying. It's kind of like my philosophy for template writing: it's all about making it easier for editors to use the template, even if that makes it harder for me (or other template writers) to write, but that is a worthy cost to pay, because users come first, not template writers. Same deal, imho, with Help page maintainers: we should make the design as clear and simple as possible for those readers coming here to read the pages, and ask for help, even if there is some cost or inconvenience to us as Help page maintainers. I don't know that this principle is enshrined anywhere in a guideline, but it is one I try to follow, and encourage others to follow; you may see it differently.

You have pointed out some reasons why subpages may not be advantageous, and made some good points on how it affects editors who maintain suites of pages like the Help pages. In some cases, I have a different view, but that's okay; to some extent, it's user choice or a judgment call. But I don't think that visual editor and ... page names having slashes is one of the criteria that should influence the choice at all. Yes, VE may have problems with subpages, but that is their problem to fix; Wikipedia should not be making decisions on how to do things all around the project based on broken, poorly designed, or incomplete software. VE has a history of problems and a very long list of bugs to fix, including things that are very basic and important. A lot of them even affect mainspace, like VE's very annoying use of numeric ref names, detailed at WP:VENAMEDREFS. That's just one; there are many such. The point being, we should not avoid best practices just because somebody else's software doesn't work right. (I seem to remember that VE couldn't be used on Talk pages at all; not sure if that is still the case, but the solution was not to get rid of Talk pages.) I suppose you hit a nerve, as I see occasions all over the place where editors in good faith twist themselves into a pretzel in their project, trying to do everything they can to work around VE's failings, rather than just create the best design they can for their project, and follow or comment on VE bugs in Phabricator so they will get some attention. Whatever design you come up with here, regardless whether it is my favorite or something very different, I would just hope you pick what seems like the best one for the Help table pages, and don't let VE's problems stand in your way of doing it the right way. Cheers, Mathglot (talk) 19:33, 26 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

So we agree on moving all the table help talk pages (via redirects and consolidating the archives here). So unless there is an objection we can start doing that. --Timeshifter (talk) 02:29, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. One thing to think about wrt the archives, is how much do we (or anybody) care about whether all the discussions are in the "right" archive, and all in chronological order? Given that there are multiple talk pages all running concurrently, to get them absolutely in the right order would be a lot of work. But I don't think that matters too much, as long as it's very roughly in order by archive (higher numbered archives should have more recent discussions) even if the order of discussions inside an archive are not strictly in order.

One way to do this without a lot of effort on our part, is to archive the archives: that is, if we set up MiszaBot configs on pages which are already archives, and all pointing to the one Talk page here, then I am pretty sure that Cluebot will just archive discussions out of the old archives into the single one, until the old ones are empty. The trick for getting it mostly chronological, is to set the |algo= param very old, like 12 years, or whatever the oldest discussion is in any of the (ex-)subpage archives; when it is done, then set it to 10 years, then 8, and incrementally move it up, letting the bot do the oldest ones in all the pages, then slowing decreasing the algo until it gets whereever we want it; I'd say a year or two. That way, we don't actually have to move any discussions anywhere, just tell the bot how to do it. What do you think? Mathglot (talk) 03:04, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Too complicated. I am going to just move them manually. It is not that difficult.

Plus many of the talk pages do not have archives, but have very old discussions.

It would take a lot of work to keep changing the algo date on a lot of talk pages and archives.

I don't really care if the archives are in order. Search will find what is desired.

Need to pick an archive size though. 150K seems like a standard size.

150KB is around 26,000 plain-text words according to this:

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+many+plain-text+words+on+average+add+up+to+150kb

Many free online word counters via URL:

https://www.google.com/search?q=online+word+counters+via+URL

--Timeshifter (talk) 04:03, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Given that people don't read archives, they search them for something they are interested in, and then just read that, the total size of the other discussions in that archive that they are not interested in doesn't really matter. And yes, 150K seems pretty standard, but I doubt anyone would notice if you made it bigger, so pick whatever number you want.

You don't have to google word counters; there is a tool that counts them. It's probably on toolforge, but you don't even have to dig it up, as {{section sizes}} incorporates it, so you can just use that. If you look at the headers at the top of this page, and open the Section sizes banner, you will see the result. Mathglot (talk) 04:33, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The section sizes banner is showing the help page section sizes, not the talk page. Is there a way to get the talk page section sizes? --Timeshifter (talk) 06:59, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Section sizes in Help talk:Table

Section size for Help talk:Table (17 sections)
Section name	Byte count		Prose size (words)
Section name	Header	Total	Header	Total
(Top)	860	860	0	0
Template:Scrolling table doc	2,018	2,018	60	60
Column operations	1,591	1,591	40	40
Helping tool	3,363	3,363	135	135
Slashes removed from table help page titles	15,816	19,339	386	549
Keeping some table help talk pages	2,986	2,986	100	100
The intro table editing pages	537	537	63	63
Challenging the revert	3,990	3,990	90	90
Notes in collapsed table for 2025 Moldovan parliamentary election opinion polls	9,936	9,936	303	303
Colors	3,337	3,337	81	81
Table of contents	540	540	43	43
Example of table with leader lines	2,317	2,317	56	56
Unwanted bold and shading	3,911	3,911	24	24
Row split in two	6,202	6,202	43	43
Exceeding double precision	6,507	6,507	248	248
Dark Mode issue: Tables with "style=background: none" are difficult to read.	4,638	4,638	156	156
Potential glitch	1,394	1,394	95	95
Total	69,943	69,943	1,923	1,923

But numbers seem way off; I count 2,233 words in this section (before this comment), so off by an order of magnitude. Bak to looking online. (My text editor gives a good count.) Mathglot (talk) 07:40, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

A talk page comment of mine from Aug 10, 2025 that I just added a couple word counter links to:

Wikipedia talk:Article size#Word counting example. Notepad++ vs Toolforge vs online word counters

It seems the Wikipedia tools are not always accurate, or consistent. "Basic statistics" from my page tools menu on this page has accurate kilobytes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Help_talk:Table&action=info

And I have more luck finding free online tools for pasting in text, versus just pasting in the URL. It seems some don't think this talk page exists:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Table

This URL word counter works with the above link:

https://www.seoptimer.com/website-word-count - it is slow, and counts only words, not kilobytes.

Some free working paste-in instant online word counters with easy-to-remember URLs:

I just "select all" to get the whole page since I will be dealing with talk archives, and perfection is not needed. Speed is more important.

I will start archiving and see how things go. Feel free to consolidate more archives. Anything older than 9 months can go in the archives here. --Timeshifter (talk) 20:14, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I usually select almost-all, that is, minus the Appendixes like References, See also, Further reading; none of that is relevant to whether a page is too long and should be split or not. Also, since my text editor supports a powerful regex engine, it is very easy to eliminate all the superscript bracketed footnote numbers in the body with a very simple regex, so you don't get an inflated count just due to footnotes inline. Mathglot (talk) 20:38, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Since they are talk archives there are no appendixes, long reference lists, and further reading.

I have redirected a few talk pages, and moved their old threads to the archives here. It has been fast and easy so far. I check the current number of words in the archive in preview before saving. When I reach around 26,000 I will start a new archive and reset the talk archiving bot counter.

I retitled the {{talk header}} box. Also, I changed to {{section sizes|getprose=no}} at the top to eliminate the word count columns since they are way low. --Timeshifter (talk) 21:45, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keeping some table help talk pages

Some table help talk pages have a long history, a larger number of participants, and many threads. Sometimes with archives. I see a net negative effect from redirecting their talk pages. I would not want those talk pages redirected without discussion. For example:

Since their page names do not start with Table/ then their archives are not pulled up in archive searches here. "So if it aint broke, don't fix it."

And people can still come to Help talk:Table if they prefer. I added this info bar to the top of those pages:

--Timeshifter (talk) 22:25, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

As previously mentioned, I don't think this is the way to go. Long history, large number of participants, many threads—none of that matters or is even relevant. What matters, is a user being able to search for and find old threads conveniently and efficiently. Having to remember or guess which subpage (or parallel page) was the one where something is likely to have been posted, so you can go look there first, is none of those. Keeping these legacy Talk pages will just slow things down, and make it harder to find old threads, and many editors won't bother. The fact that you even need an info notice that they might be in the wrong place is a yellow flag indicating that there might be something wrong here. I have nothing against more discussion to get a consensus for moving the discussions, but I see no advantages and only disadvantages from doing it this way. Mathglot (talk) 22:36, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Someone with a question about sortable tables is going to read that help page first. I have worked on that help page and its talk page for years. I don't think people have a problem at all about asking questions there. Most people don't bother searching the archives first. They skim the talk page, and then ask their question. Problems in the sortable table archive have already been solved usually. If not, then a new thread is the way to go.

Same is true for collapsing tables and conditional tables. They are very particular types of tables, and people will read their help pages first. Since we have the {{table help}} template at the top of all table help pages people have little problem finding the specific table help page. And thus its talk page. It's really not broke. Questions get answered.

Those talk pages have more watchers. Enable the XTools gadget in the appearance section here:

Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets

It shows the number of watchers right under the page name. --Timeshifter (talk) 23:12, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The intro table editing pages

I know that crew is very particular about how things are done on those pages. So I am going to leave their talk pages alone.

I noticed that all the various intro pages have talk pages that redirect to these 2 talk pages:

I will try to add the info bar to those 2 talk pages. --Timeshifter (talk) 22:38, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Challenging the revert

@Timeshifter, I feel a more appropriate place for the .css page of the template's .css page and not on Help:Table. Misleading and confusing. 8rz (talk) 20:26, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

8rz, would you like to link or explain whatever it is you are talking about, and not the Wikipedia article 'Discussion', so that other interested parties might be able to take part? Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 20:32, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Mathglot:, this and thus. I attempted to move to Help:Table/styles.css to Template/Help table/styles.css but rollbacked immediately by Timeshifter citing it was already discussed. I want to challenge the revert by claiming it is a more appropriate lication for a template's css styles on its corresponding subpage rather than some illogically placed albeit related help page. 8rz (talk) 20:44, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I know this was your initiative Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 218#TemplateStyles not just for templates anymore, but it is so confusing and navigating to the styless css page is like going through a hedge maze. Barely found it. 8rz (talk) 20:52, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Mathglot. I believe there was a linkbox to the CSS page at one point? --Timeshifter (talk) 20:59, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

At one point. I know it was there as well. I've been following this particular template during my hiatus ever since its creation. This header was my idea, afterall. Timeshifter check my user page. I am sure you'll recognize me ; Anyway proposing to it get moved back to the template's subpage as a logical intuitive location. For example, I am on the css page, want to go back to the template I need to go from help to the template namespace. Counter-intuitive. 8rz (talk) 21:05, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

In the future please link to what you are talking about: Help:Table/styles.css and Help talk:Table/styles.css.

See Help talk:Table/styles.css#Link to styles.css on all table help pages. --Timeshifter (talk) 21:22, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry. Was in a frenzy. 8rz (talk) 21:27, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Timeshifter, what does the above topic link have to do anything with the issue I am having? 8rz (talk) 23:37, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

See the old red-linked linkbox just below and to the right of {{table help}} in that thread. You said you "Barely found it." The template, I mean. I see the problem better now. That only links to the CSS page, and it does not currently link to the {{table help}} template.

The problem with the styles.css page is that it effects both table help pages, and the template. I think I will separate out the CSS only having to do with the template. --Timeshifter (talk) 23:48, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is one cannot link back from the css page back to the template parent page. 8rz (talk) 23:57, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Or start a new topic on VPT to have it moved back to the template's subpage? 8rz (talk) 23:58, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think I fixed it. I pulled out the CSS only having to do with the template, and moved it here:

Template:Table help/styles.css

--Timeshifter (talk) 00:00, 28 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Notes in collapsed table for 2025 Moldovan parliamentary election opinion polls

Note: Moved from User talk:Timeshifter.

Hello, surely you remember your edits at 2025 Moldovan parliamentary election#Opinion polls, you made the table collapsible with some sticky sections (not sure how to call them, but you get what I mean I think), which was a great improvement. The table has +30 notes and was bloating the bottom of the article, so I thought it'd be a good idea to have the notes on a collapsible list within the table itself. I've done this but I thought it'd be nice if the note section at the bottom was also sticky, I couldn't figure out how. I'd greatly appreciate help for this (or if you can tell me that this is not technically possible). If it's not technically possible, maybe a better way could be to have a collapsible list right below but outside of the table. Also, I am not sure why are the notes now in italics, so if you could also help me remove that. Thanks in advance, Super Ψ Dro 09:56, 11 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Super Dromaeosaurus: This is complicated enough that the discussion may help update stuff on the table help pages. So I moved the discussion here. Also, I may not have much time to help. So others may help here. --Timeshifter (talk) 17:07, 11 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Super Dromaeosaurus: I think I fixed it. See this version:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2025_Moldovan_parliamentary_election&oldid=1317366870#Opinion_polls

--Timeshifter (talk) 19:12, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Super Dromaeosaurus: Oops. I think that version violates Wikipedia:Manual of Style#Scrolling lists and collapsible content and Wikipedia:Accessibility guidelines. Because the notes are in a fully collapsed table.

Template:Collapse top says it can only be used on talk pages if fully collapsed. So I moved the notes to the bottom of the table. As part of the partially collapsed table via Template:Sticky table start. See this version:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2025_Moldovan_parliamentary_election&oldid=1317371005#Opinion_polls

I am still not sure if this is OK. Maybe Jroberson108 and others know. --Timeshifter (talk) 19:40, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for trying, I think the ideal version would be the current one but if we could make the notes section visible at all times in the table without having to scroll down to the bottom to see them, like the abbreviations of parties and their colors are visible at all times. If this is even possible. Super Ψ Dro 23:51, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Here is another version:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2025_Moldovan_parliamentary_election&oldid=1317427765#Opinion_polls

The notes are in a separate scrolling div below the table:

<div style="height:20em; overflow:auto; border:2px solid;">
:'''Notes:'''
{{notelist}}
</div>

See: Help:Advanced table features#Scrolling tables --Timeshifter (talk) 02:21, 18 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Putting the notes under the table in the scrollable area or under the table's scrollable area, both seem fine, but they give different user experiences. Clicking on the note's link, you lose your reading place on the former because you jump down inside the scrollable area, but with the latter you don't lose your place since you jump below the table's scrollable area. In both cases, you can still read the note if you hover over it with your mouse when the notes are off screen. Seems like the latter would be the better user experience. Jroberson108 (talk) 05:19, 18 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Jroberson108: Interesting. One can click the back arrow to get back to the exact same spot in the table. For example, deep in the "Others" column where there are a lot of notes.

I couldn't get height to work via percent: height:70%;

Is there a way to make the height of the scrolling window be a percentage of the available screen height. Preferably the available screen inside Windows toolbars, tab bars, etc..

Also, does this method violate any guideline or policy? I assume not since the sticky table is inside a scrolling window, too. Maybe Graham87 can tell us if the notes are accessible to him in our preferred version:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2025_Moldovan_parliamentary_election&oldid=1317427765#Opinion_polls

Graham, some of the table headers have notes that show upon hovering, or via clicking. The first column head with a note is "PRIM".

--Timeshifter (talk) 19:09, 18 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Timeshifter: Change "%" to "vh". 70vh represents 70% of the viewport's height. Be sure to test on mobile landscape orientation where there isn't much height. A scrolling area doesn't use display: none; to hide the content, so screen readers should be able to read the content. Jroberson108 (talk) 20:06, 18 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Timeshifter: Yes, the footnotes that need to be clicked (the ones with the letters) work fine with my screen reader. Anything that requires just hovering won't work for me. Graham87 (talk) 20:54, 18 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Graham87 and Jroberson108. I used height:70vh; in the notes window. It looks fine in my iPhone SE 2020 in Chrome. Same vertical height as the sticky table window.

Super Dromaeosaurus. I changed the line height from 14px to 17px because the numbers were overlapping each other in my cell phone.

The font size you are using for the smaller numbers violates a guideline that no article fonts should ever be below 85% of the regular article font size. See:

Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Text formatting#Font size.

The reason this is happening is because 85% of 90% (the table font size) is 76.5%. --Timeshifter (talk) 02:32, 19 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Timeshifter: If you are trying to match the sticky table scrollable area height, it uses 75vh. Jroberson108 (talk) 02:44, 19 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

OK. I think I will keep it at 70vh. Others may change it. SuperDro has the notes font size at 85%, and it is easy to read them since they aren't in table columns, and don't require complicated scrolling. So it isn't necessary to push for a taller window as with tables and all their problems in mobile landscape view. Here is the 70vh version:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2025_Moldovan_parliamentary_election&oldid=1317618873#Opinion_polls

--Timeshifter (talk) 02:51, 19 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Why would you use px? It does not appear that the table contains images. It seems to me that some number of em would be more appropriate, so the display responds to the user's current font size. I don't see, however, the necessity of even specifying line-height; why do you think you need that? — JohnFromPinckney (talk / edits) 08:22, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Line height was already there. I just increased it. Others will have to decide whether it is needed at all.

Pixels? Where are they being used?

--Timeshifter (talk) 23:01, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I have now edited that page. I removed the line-height:17px; as well as the unhelpful style="width:35px;" constraints.

Pixels? Where are they being used? In your own post (I changed the line height from 14px to 17px), and (until a moment ago) in the cited page. And I wouldn't say they are being "used", which is why I removed them; they are unnecessary, unhelpful, and misleading. — JohnFromPinckney (talk / edits) 10:48, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, brain fart on the line-height pixels. I agree about the column widths being unnecessary. I think though that the line height is unnecessarily tall. Maybe you, SuperDro, or somebody else can narrow the line height with em units. --Timeshifter (talk) 14:36, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I lessened the line height with this in the table styling wikitext:

style="line-height:0.95;"

It makes for tighter rows with text touching text below only rarely. On desktop monitors and in my iPhone SE 2020 in Chrome.

See: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/line-height

See this version:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2025_Moldovan_parliamentary_election&oldid=1319381002

Compare the table (by itself) with and without line height adjustment:

User:Timeshifter/Sandbox301.

--Timeshifter (talk) 09:15, 31 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Colors

Hi all, it took me quite some effort to determine how to change background color of a cell or complete table. It appears that one cannot use html color coding, like f3f3f3, but one should use (in this case), background-color:WhiteSmoke. Can this be added to the page, including a list to a conversion from html into these textual codes? I wanted to use the background color of an image for the complete table. Thanks, Ellywa (talk) 15:54, 18 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It's working for me. For all table cells, or a single table cell.

I am viewing in dark mode.

style=background-color:#f3f3f3;

Caption text
Header text	Header text	Header text
Example	Example	Example
Example	Example	test
Example	Example	Example

Caption text
Header text	Header text	Header text
Example	Example	Example
Example	Example	Example
Example	Example	Example

I wonder where the "caption text" disappeared to in the 2nd table.

--Timeshifter (talk) 17:17, 18 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Ellywa: When you specify a colour as a RGB hex triplet (see CSS Color Module Level 3) the hash character (#) is nowadays mandatory. It has always been mandatory for such values when specified in a CSS declaration such as <table style="background-color:#f3f3f3">.

Now for the historical context: prior to HTML 4.0 (December 1997), colour in HTML documents was specified using the BGCOLOR=, TEXT=, LINK=, VLINK= and ALINK= attributes of the <BODY> tag, and the COLOR= attribute of the <FONT> tag. Some browsers also recognised the BGCOLOR= attribute (but not the others) with <TABLE>, <TR>, <TH> and <TD>. When these attributes were used to specify a colour as an RGB hex triplet, many browsers allowed the hash character to be omitted, e.g. <TABLE BGCOLOR=F3F3F3>. All of these techniques were deprecated in HTML 4.0 and declared obsolete in HTML 5.0, and therefore must not be relied upon.

With all that said, the MediaWiki software does permit all of these obsolete techniques to be used, they are not sanitised in any way except for placing double quotes around any unquoted attribute values (so e.g. {| bgcolor=f3f3f3 emits <table bgcolor="f3f3f3">) and therefore the obsolete form is served to the client, and the end result may still work as intended - but only for browsers that recognise these older techniques, not necessarily for all browsers. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 12:22, 21 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

thank you sooooo much @Redrose64 and @Timeshifter, indeed I am rather an oldie. This is a tremendous help. Ellywa (talk) 13:16, 21 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Example of table with leader lines

Recently while working on wikisource to convert an old table, I managed to use leader lines in a table that worked fairly satisfactory. I was wondering if this example would merit inclusion in the guide here, since I would like to share how I did this with other users.

{| style="margin: auto; border: none;"
|-
| || H<sub>2</sub> || N<sub>2</sub> || O<sub>2</sub> || CO || CO<sub>2</sub> || N<sub>2</sub>O || C<sub>2</sub>H<sub>4</sub>
|-
| {{ll||<math display=inline> 10^b \eta_0 </math> }}|| 86 || 166 || 187 || 162 || 138 || 135 || 92
|-
| {{ll||<math display=inline> M </math>}} || 2 || 28 || 32 || 28 || 44 || 44 || 28 
|-
| {{ll||<math display=inline> C </math> }} || 79 || 109 || 127 || 100 || 277 || 260 || 272 
|- 
| {{ll||<math display=inline> (2a)^2 \text{(relative)}  </math> }} || 127 || 228 || 206 || 239 || 239 || 261 || 288
|-
| {{ll||<math display=inline> (2a)^3 \text{(relative)} </math> }}|| 1440 || 3440 || 2963 || 3698 || 3686 || 4230 || 4884 
|}

IanVG (talk) 22:18, 18 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

There are no column headers in this table. sapphaline (talk) 12:18, 19 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I can't test this because Template:ll does not exist. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:44, 19 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Woah, that’s weird, I should have tested this on Wikipedia before testing! The template works on Wikisource and looks like this: [my wikisource userpage](https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/User:IanVG/Tables). It’s near the bottom of the page! IanVG (talk) 06:19, 20 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Or, s:User:IanVG/Tables#Finished table. Will examine later: need to go out for the day. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 09:33, 20 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Unwanted bold and shading

How do I eliminate the bolding of text and shading of the cell with 1959 in it?

Chart performance for "The Little Drummer Boy" by The Harry Simeone Chorale (1958—2025)
Holiday season	Chart	Peak position
1958	US Billboard Hot 100^[1]	13
1959	UK Singles (OCC)^[2]	13
1959	US Billboard Hot 100^[1]	15

{| class="wikitable plainrowheaders" style="text-align:center"
|+ Chart performance for "The Little Drummer Boy" by The Harry Simeone Chorale (1958—2025)
! scope="col"| Holiday<br/>season
! scope="col"| Chart
! scope="col"| Peak<br />position
|-
| style="text-align:center;"|1958
|align="left"|US [[Billboard Hot 100|''Billboard'' Hot 100]]<ref name = WhitburnHSC/>
| style="text-align:center;"|13
|-
! rowspan=2|1959
| style="text-align:left"{{singlechart|UKsinglesbyname|13|artist=Harry Simeone Chorale |artistid=6867}}
|-
|align="left"|US ''Billboard'' Hot 100<ref name = WhitburnHSC/>
| style="text-align:center;"|15
|}

Danaphile (talk) 12:02, 19 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Use this code:

{| class="wikitable plainrowheaders" style="text-align:center"
|+ Chart performance for "The Little Drummer Boy" by The Harry Simeone Chorale (1958—2025)
! scope="col"| Holiday<br/>season
! scope="col"| Chart
! scope="col"| Peak<br />position
|-
| style="text-align:center;"|1958
|align="left"|US [[Billboard Hot 100|''Billboard'' Hot 100]]<ref name = WhitburnHSC/>
| style="text-align:center;"|13
|-
| rowspan=2|1959
| style="text-align:left"{{singlechart|UKsinglesbyname|13|artist=Harry Simeone Chorale |artistid=6867}}
|-
|align="left"|US ''Billboard'' Hot 100<ref name = WhitburnHSC/>
| style="text-align:center;"|15
|}

sapphaline (talk) 12:14, 19 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks so much! I'm looking at the highlighted line, but I'm not seeing the difference other than the color coding. Since I have much more to do on this project, I'd be interested in learning what I was doing wrong. Thanks again. Danaphile (talk) 13:24, 19 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Your code was:

! rowspan=2|1959

My code is:

| rowspan=2|1959

sapphaline (talk) 13:50, 19 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

@Danaphile: The "plainrowheaders" class only works on row headers that have a scope of "row" or "rowgroup", i.e. ! scope="row" rowspan=2|1959. In this case, it doesn't seem like they need to be scoped or be headers; hence changing "!" to "|" for a normal data cell. The unused "plainrowheaders" class can be removed too. Jroberson108 (talk) 20:45, 19 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Also, that class only removes the bold styling, not the background color since visually you still need a way to identify the row headers. Jroberson108 (talk) 20:58, 19 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ ^a ^b Cite error: The named reference WhitburnHSC was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ "Harry Simeone Chorale Songs and Albums | Full Official Chart History". Official Charts Company.

Row split in two

This song reached number 6 on the Easy Listening chart two years in a row, so I put in rowspan=2 for both of those cells. It's only giving me one row that is split in two.

Chart performance for "The Little Drummer Boy" by The Harry Simeone Chorale (1958—2025)
Holiday season	Chart	Peak position
1958	US Billboard Hot 100^[1]	13
1959	UK Singles (OCC)^[2]	13
1959	US Billboard Hot 100^[1]	15
1960		24
1961		22
1961	US Billboard Easy Listening^[1]	6
1962	US Billboard Easy Listening^[1]	6
1962	US Billboard Hot 100^[1]	28

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|+ Chart performance for "The Little Drummer Boy" by The Harry Simeone Chorale (1958—2025)
! scope="col"| Holiday<br/>season
! scope="col"| Chart
! scope="col"| Peak<br />position
|-
| style="text-align:center;"|1958
|align="left"|US [[Billboard Hot 100|''Billboard'' Hot 100]]<ref name = WhitburnHSC/>
| style="text-align:center;"|13
|-
| rowspan=2|1959
| style="text-align:left"{{singlechart|UKsinglesbyname|13|artist=Harry Simeone Chorale |artistid=6867}}
|-
| rowspan=3 align="left"|US ''Billboard'' Hot 100<ref name = WhitburnHSC/>
| style="text-align:center;"|15
|-
| style="text-align:center;"|1960
| style="text-align:center;"|24
|-
| rowspan=2 style="text-align:center;"|1961
| style="text-align:center;"|22
|-
| rowspan=2 align="left"|US ''Billboard'' [[Adult Contemporary (chart)|Easy Listening]]<ref name = WhitburnHSC/>
| rowspan=2 style="text-align:center;"|6
|-
| rowspan=2 style="text-align:center;"|1962
|-
|align="left"|US ''Billboard'' Hot 100<ref name = WhitburnHSC/>
| style="text-align:center;"|28
|-
|}

Danaphile (talk) 21:01, 19 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

@Danaphile: Complicated, had to clean it up some first, then flatten it and start over with the spans. Seems to be some issues if the spanning is complex like this one. Removing the span on "6" seems to make it work, otherwise I can't span 1961. At least now 6 matches the above unspanned 13.

Chart performance for "The Little Drummer Boy" by The Harry Simeone Chorale (1958—2025)
Holiday season	Chart	Peak position
1958	US Billboard Hot 100^[1]	13
1959	UK Singles (OCC)^[2]	13
1959	US Billboard Hot 100^[1]	15
1960		24
1961		22
1961	US Billboard Easy Listening^[1]	6
1962	US Billboard Easy Listening^[1]	6
1962	US Billboard Hot 100^[1]	28

Jroberson108 (talk) 22:05, 19 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Thinking more about it, having rowspan of 2 on both "US Billboard Easy Listening" and "6" is the same as 1 row, so that might be the issue. Jroberson108 (talk) 22:13, 19 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

This is another manifestation of this "bug" report from almost a year ago; see in partcular my post of 20:33, 4 February 2025. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:52, 19 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Using the original table, added more to 1961 and 1962. That rendering bug seems to be the issue.

Chart performance for "The Little Drummer Boy" by The Harry Simeone Chorale (1958—2025)
Holiday season	Chart	Peak position
1958	US Billboard Hot 100^[1]	13
1959	UK Singles (OCC)^[2]	13
1959	US Billboard Hot 100^[1]	15
1960		24
1961 more		22
1961 more	US Billboard Easy Listening^[1]	6
1962 more	US Billboard Easy Listening^[1]	6
1962 more	US Billboard Hot 100^[1]	28

Jroberson108 (talk) 23:12, 19 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

It's not a rendering bug, but expected behaviour, as I described in February 2025. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 09:31, 20 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting, Firefox renders it correctly. Maybe some other engines do to? Layout algorithm differences? Jroberson108 (talk) 23:45, 20 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ ^a ^b ^c ^d ^e ^f ^g ^h ⁱ ^j ^k ^l Cite error: The named reference WhitburnHSC was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ ^a ^b ^c "Harry Simeone Chorale Songs and Albums | Full Official Chart History". Official Charts Company.

Exceeding double precision

Note: Moved here from Help talk:Sortable tables (which now redirects here).

Since numerical data sort values are stored in double-precision floating-point format, I had the idea of writing a section about limitations of double precision. In particular, I found that passing a numeric string that parses as +∞ would allow numeric sorting at positive infinity. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 06:13, 20 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I have an example now (based on Isotopes of bromine). I don't think we have a section on tables with mixed units yet, and the final draft might use a different subset of the table.

Isotopes of bromine

{| class="wikitable sortable"
|+ Isotopes of bromine
|-
! Isotope
! Half-life 
|-
| <sup>75</sup>Br
| data-sort-value = 5802 | 96.7&nbsp;min <!--Sorted in seconds for compatibility of units-->
|-
| <sup>76</sup>Br
| data-sort-value = 58320 | 16.2&nbsp;h
|-
| <sup>77</sup>Br
| data-sort-value = 205344 | 57.04&nbsp;h
|-
| <sup>78</sup>Br
| data-sort-value = 387 | 6.45&nbsp;min
|-
| <sup>79</sup>Br
| data-sort-value = 1e309 | stable <!--Exceeds upper limit of double precision-->
|-
| <sup>80</sup>Br
| data-sort-value = 1060.8 | 17.68&nbsp;min
|-
| <sup>80m</sup>Br
| data-sort-value = 15913.8 | 4.4205&nbsp;h
|-
| <sup>81</sup>Br
| data-sort-value = 1e309 | stable <!--Exceeds upper limit of double precision-->
|-
| <sup>82</sup>Br
| data-sort-value = 127015.2 | 35.282&nbsp;h
|-
| <sup>83</sup>Br
| data-sort-value = 8546.4 | 2.374&nbsp;h
|}

Isotopes of bromine
Isotope	Half-life
⁷⁵Br	96.7 min
⁷⁶Br	16.2 h
⁷⁷Br	57.04 h
⁷⁸Br	6.45 min
⁷⁹Br	stable
⁸⁰Br	17.68 min
^80mBr	4.4205 h
⁸¹Br	stable
⁸²Br	35.282 h
⁸³Br	2.374 h

–LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 06:50, 20 January 2026 (UTC) I propose putting this in #Default data type of a column and creating a new section on data with mixed units:[reply]

The wiki software uses double-precision floating-point format, which offers approximately 15 significant digits of precision and can represent numbers ranging in absolute value from approximately 4.9×10⁻³²⁴ to 1.7×10³⁰⁸. While tables with extremely large or extremely small values may not sort correctly, the numerical sort value of +∞ (plus infinity) can be encoded by a number that exceeds the upper limit of double precision.

–LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 07:12, 20 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Calling in some help since I don't have the time now: Jroberson108, Redrose64, sapphaline. --Timeshifter (talk) 14:01, 20 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Help with what? –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 15:37, 20 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

LaundryPizza03. I moved this discussion here so that it is more likely to get noticed. --Timeshifter (talk) 11:20, 22 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

How can I link up the archive subpages for the original talk page that got redirected? –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 11:31, 22 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

They will eventually be copied to the main talk page archives. This has been done with other talk page archives for table talk pages that are not well watched. That will allow them to be found by the main talk page search engine.

For now they are here:

Help talk:Sortable tables/Archive 5

--Timeshifter (talk) 11:47, 22 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

LaundryPizza03. I (and apparently others) are just not finding the time to help here. It might also have to do with that fact that it is advanced-math related. :) Feel free to add info to Help:Sortable tables. Hopefully someone will correct any errors.

For those who are interested, I moved the sortable table talk archives (Help talk:Sortable tables/Archive 5, etc.) to Help talk:Table archives. Archives 11 through 14 here are strictly sortable table archives. Archive 15 begins with the last of those talk threads, and then finishes with the latest Help talk:Table threads that have been archived. --Timeshifter (talk) 21:12, 2 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I just added this to the page. I have also added a subsection about sorting dimensional quantities. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 22:10, 2 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Dark Mode issue: Tables with "style=background: none" are difficult to read.

When viewing tables with the background set to transparent/none, the text is made a dark grey (#202122) on a black background, making it difficult to read. This can be seen on the Help page under the "Non-rectangular tables" section in "Workarounds":

Help:Table#Non-rectangular tables

Notably, this behavior is different depending on if the background is set to "transparent" or "none": transparent has links be in their usual blue/purple colors, while none has links also be set to that gray color.

I'm sorry if this isn't the right place to report this; There were many places that seemed like they could be viable candidates. Dinjoralo (talk) 14:11, 20 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

@Dinjoralo: See: Help:Advanced table features#Avoid background:none or transparent.

There are multiple sections on color starting here:

Help:Advanced table features#Colors in tables.

--Timeshifter (talk) 17:34, 20 March 2026

@Dinjoralo: I see the problem in dark mode. I removed that section from the help page until someone can fix it. I don't have the time right now. Here it is:

Cell borders can be hidden by adding border: none; background: none; to the style attributes of either the table or the cell,^{[note 1]} though this may not work in older browsers. Another use case for this is for implementing aligned multi-column tables:

Wikitext

{| class=wikitable style="border: none; background: none;"
! colspan=2 rowspan=2 style="border: none; background: none;" | [[File:Pfeil_SO.svg |none|link=|20px]]
! colspan=3 | To
|-
! Solid !! Liquid !! Gas
|-
! rowspan=3 | From
! Solid
| Solid–solid transformation || Melting || Sublimation
|-
! Liquid
| Freezing || {{sdash}} || Boiling/evaporation
|-
! Gas
| Deposition || Condensation || {{sdash}}
|}

Produces

		To
		Solid	Liquid	Gas
From	Solid	Solid–solid transformation	Melting	Sublimation
	Liquid	Freezing	—	Boiling/evaporation
	Gas	Deposition	Condensation	—

The removal of the link on an image is dependent on it being purely decorative (as it will be ignored by assistive devices).

Wikitext

{| class=wikitable style="border: none; background: none;"
! scope=col | Year
! scope=col | Size
| rowspan=5 style="border: none; background: none;"|
! scope=col | Year
! scope=col | Size
| rowspan=5 style="border: none; background: none;"|
! scope=col | Year
! scope=col | Size
|-
| 1990 || 1000<br>(est) || 2000 || 1357 || 2010 || 1776
|-
| 1991 || 1010 || 2001 || 1471 || 2011 || 1888
|-
| colspan=2 style="text-align: center;"|⋮
| colspan=2 style="text-align: center;"|⋮
| colspan=2 style="text-align: center;"|⋮
|-
| 1999 || 1234 || 2009 || 1616 || 2019 || 1997<br>(est)
|}

Produces

Year	Size	Year	Size	Year	Size
1990	1000 (est)	2000	1357	2010	1776
1991	1010	2001	1471	2011	1888
⋮		⋮		⋮
1999	1234	2009	1616	2019	1997 (est)

^ Applying background: none to the entire table will, perhaps predictably, subtly alter its color palette.

--Timeshifter (talk) 16:28, 21 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Understood. I saw a table like this in an article, and didn't know if the original had a specific reason for using those styles. I'll go ahead and edit that article to remove the background color from the table. Dinjoralo (talk) 16:55, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Potential glitch

For a while now, I’ve had an issue where I can’t select a large range of cells that requires scrolling down without the page forcing me to scroll back up. For example, at Foreign relations of Palau, if I try to select all the countries under the “Country” column in the table, I would normally click on “Australia,” hold the button, and scroll down to “Trinidad and Tobago.” However, I’m no longer able to do this because the page keeps scrolling back up. Is anyone else experiencing this? Semsûrî (talk) 09:10, 30 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I've never done that. But if I want to copy a column I go into the visual editor. Then I click on the top cell of what I want to copy. Then shift-click on the bottom cell of what I want to copy. Then ctrl-c to copy the selected cells. --Timeshifter (talk) 14:10, 30 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I did not know of that trick. Thank you. Semsûrî (talk) 15:19, 30 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

@Semsûrî: You're welcome. See also: Help:Creating tables#Insert blank row/column and the following sections on moving, deleting, and copying columns. And: Help:Table#Column operations. --Timeshifter (talk) 15:32, 30 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

[WhitburnHSC-1] Cite error: The named reference WhitburnHSC was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[sc_UKsinglesbyname_Harry_Simeone_Chorale-2] "Harry Simeone Chorale Songs and Albums | Full Official Chart History". Official Charts Company.

[WhitburnHSC-3] ^ ^a ^b ^c ^d ^e ^f ^g ^h ⁱ ^j ^k ^l Cite error: The named reference WhitburnHSC was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[sc_UKsinglesbyname_Harry_Simeone_Chorale-4] "Harry Simeone Chorale Songs and Albums | Full Official Chart History". Official Charts Company.

[5] Applying background: none to the entire table will, perhaps predictably, subtly alter its color palette.

[1]

[2]

[1]

[2]

[note 1]